User talk:Epeli

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You can leave a message for me here. Remember to sign your posts with four tildes!

If you're looking for something to do on the wiki, check the community portal out! -- Epeli (talk) 00:27, 28 March 2013 (CDT)

Psi scaling

Thanks for correcting the part about level scaling over on psi abilities! Your version is much better than mine. I'm in the middle of a psi run so I might add/correct more psi things in the next weeks. Izual (talk) 04:25, 9 May 2017 (CDT)

Thanks to you as well for pointing it out. There's always work to be done on a wiki, keep up the good work! - epeli (talk) 16:54, 9 May 2017 (CDT)


Taggart here: (hmm didn't expect this "New Section" to go in your main message box. Need to figure out the discussion sysyem also.. guess it's not like a forum thread post.., sorry!)


Thanks for the tips and pointer, and for fixing my errors :) I'm learning as I go..

I looked but didn't see Maurice's portrait in the Category:Portraits, and, not realizing it was there for sure, I made one while trying to adhere to what I saw in other existing examples. I guess it was a "didn't see the trees for the forest" thing. And, TBH, the "generic" name of the correct portrait would have probably thrown me off even if I did spot it - I might have thought, "hmm, it looks the same but maybe I just can't spot the difference..". But now that I know all portraits should be there, I'll look more closely for the next one.

Category:In-game models escaped me completely. Didn't even know it existed. I'm glad my self-made pic was actually very close to the "official" one if the category; so if I do need to make one, I'm on the right track. :) I'll know where to look next time; before making one if necessary.

I need to work on understanding {PAGENAME} and where it should be used. Will keep looking for examples..

Thanks again! Love the game :)

Taggart (talk) 18:52, 21 March 2016 (CDT)

Categorizing images

Hello. Got your note re Categorizing images. I had actually just figured that out when I uploaded the Johnny Filth model and was able to embed Deploy second T-ray emitter in the summary. Before that I didn't know where to put it (having noticed you editing it in). But I can't seem to edit the file summary so I had tucked away the knowledge for the next one.. Thanks! Taggart (talk) 04:25, 23 March 2016 (CDT)

Ammo info

Hey, figured I might just ask here: We can get from a specific weapon(blueprint) to the ammo it uses, but is there any link from the ammo to the weapons? Like, say, clicking on explosive bullets and seeing which weapons can potentially use them?--UnLimiTeD (talk) 04:12, 11 February 2017 (CST)

We don't have that info anywhere yet, but we could easily add it to Template:AmmoGroup. That's where weapon pages grab their ammo info from. I just added empty "uses caliber" groups and filled .44 as an example, but someone will have to fill in the rest. Once that's done it's just a matter of copypasting 2 lines to all ammo pages, just like the ammo info on weapon pages. - epeli (talk) 05:28, 11 February 2017 (CST)
Update: I had my bot add the necessary info to ammo pages. Now it's just a matter of listing weapons in the ammogroups template. :) - epeli (talk) 05:41, 11 February 2017 (CST)
I did as much, excluding most unique weapons. There's not really much using the heavier ammo types, huh? --UnLimiTeD (talk) 07:54, 11 February 2017 (CST)
Thanks! I added the remaining uniques and split the lists by weapon type. Yeah, the heavier calibers are mostly for pistols and sniper rifles. - epeli (talk) 08:23, 11 February 2017 (CST)

Re: About article body text

Sure thing. Working on the crossbow pages now, I think they need more love than any other weapon, especially examples. Feel free to check if I didn't screw anything up once I'm done. Tygrende (talk) 19:57, 7 August 2017 (CDT)

Template:Tabbed infobox limit

Hey, I was wondering if it was possible to increase the tabbed infobox tab limit from 16 to at least 18. That's how many I would need to showcase all Riot Gear vest/plate/shield/coat examples, I don't think I will ever need more than that.

I know it is a bit redundant since one can simply check most of those in component quality tables but it's nice to have a basic example of everything on the page and I didn't want to leave anything out for the sake of consistency. Tygrende (talk) 16:21, 11 August 2017 (CDT)

Done, increased max tabs to 30 for now. The tabbed infobox was originally intended for only a few tabs as that's the maximum text length that fits into a single tabbed infobox instance, but it seems that pages using multiple instances can get pretty crazy. And sorry for the delay, had busy two weeks. - epeli (talk) 13:28, 28 August 2017 (CDT)

NPCs sharing a collective name

I would like to have a way to list those NPCs who have different traits and capabilities (example) but share a name separately. We can use the infobox to show a health and initiative range, but forcing in more than that turns it effectively unreadable.

I have experimented with body text bullet point lists and also with simple tables, but I'm not happy with either. Suggestions? - Abscisin (talk) 14:48, 9 October 2017 (CDT)

We could use the {{Tabbed infobox}} template and have one character infobox for each variation in the Tchortist Acolyte article.
Another alternative would be having a separate article for each character variation (eg. Tchortist Acolyte (Thought Control), Tchortist Acolyte (Metathermics), Tchortist Acolyte (Psychokinesis)) but I don't see a need to go that far in this case. These character variations are easily left to the infobox. - epeli (talk) 16:38, 9 October 2017 (CDT)
The tabbed infobox sounds like a good idea, but coming up with tab names will be headache inducing. The acolytes are easy to categorize like that, but what shall I do with Recruit 1, Recruit 2, Recruit 3? - Abscisin (talk) 16:44, 9 October 2017 (CDT)
Recruit 1, Recruit 2, Recruit 3 or Recruit 1, 2, 3 or Recruit variant 1, 2, 3 or simply Variant 1, 2, 3 or whatever you want is fine. Don't stress about it. All the info is in the infobox itself and tabs are fast & easy to browse as there are no slow pageloads involved. Thus the tab names don't need to be extremely descriptive and precise. - epeli (talk) 16:59, 9 October 2017 (CDT)
Alright, sounds good. I have not prepared the different variants for quick use today, but I'll try it next time. - Abscisin (talk) 17:09, 9 October 2017 (CDT)


How should we mark things that differ based on difficulty? Most importantly those that go in the infobox, so usually locations, but sometimes also abilities, stats, and so on. Use parenthesis with initials, like Upper Caves (N,H,D), or with superscript Upper CavesNHD? Or would you like to make a template for it?

The idea is that no mark = same on every difficulty – or that we haven't got around collecting this information yet. Not the most unambiguous way to do things, I'm missing some not exactly trivial info even for new articles, such as damage ranges from Dominating. You know the problem with those. It is different on Dominating (and only on Dominating), but I haven't quite worked it out yet, so those will have to wait until another day. What I'm saying is that things are going to be a bit inconsistent this way, but the alternative is marking everything, and that would only turn the infobox into a mess.

Similar question for hit points on Dominating. Include it always, or only when it isn't the standard +50%? How should it be displayed, would regular / dominating in the health bar be clear enough?

And for the Two-headed Mutant as it is a random event, anything special we should do to mark it as such? We can start a "Random Event" category, but would you like it marked somehow for example in the navbox? Same question for NPCs that appear only on some difficulties. - Abscisin (talk) 23:00, 18 January 2018 (CST)

Difficulty: Let's just go with regular stats in infobox. Add a new heading for difficulty changes that lists stat differences, new abilities and locations. For location articles that list enemies it's enough to add a short note in parenthesis like I just did with the turrets of Depot A as an example. Those enemy lists are yet another thing I'd like to expand at some point by listing the exact number of enemies, respawns, random events, etc. but that'll have to wait.
Random events: Mentioning if something is a random event can be done in body text. Category:Random events is in order, yes. Maybe a navbox as well once we have some content for it. Unlike the two-headed mutant, many events will need pages of their own as well. If you're unsure whether something was a random event or some other new addition, you can run DebugView while playing, set it to include only Underrail (Ouroboros). Any triggered events are logged when they load and you get to see their internal name which might be useful in some cases. - epeli (talk) 11:24, 26 January 2018 (CST)
Welp, I made Template:Difficulty anyway, in case you want to use those small inline difficulty notes somewhere. - epeli (talk) 11:49, 26 January 2018 (CST)
Gotcha. I would still like to do locations in the infobox with the new template if that is fine with you. I feel it's more straightforward than selecting Normal as the baseline and listing every addition and removal separately in a different place. We only list broad areas as location in character articles and don't include numbers, splitting something this basic would be unnecessarily complicated. At least for now. - Abscisin (talk) 13:26, 26 January 2018 (CST)

House images

Thanks for categorizing those for me, I totally spaced it in the repetitive process of uploading.

Will most likely gallery them over the next week as I get time since embedding them seems to make the page too cluttered. Will resize as needed to keep consistency.

Will also peruse the community portal and see what I can add as well.

WakingComa (talk) 17:29, 1 April 2018 (CDT)

Attribution for destroyor

We need to keep credit for destroyor as he PM'ed me allowing including parts of his guide with attribution, as I asked. The attribution looks awkward right now as the wiki has no cite templates. The particular pages are Talos Outpost, Intimidation, and Rapid Reloader.

sthalik (talk) 16:13, 14 April 2018 (CDT)

Don't copy destroyor's guide verbatim and you won't need attribution. It would be preferable if wiki editors personally fact-checked their contributions rather than trusting and copying secondary sources. I already got email that the information on the faceless attitude check is wrong, that's what brought me here. The other two bits are far too small to require attribution to anyone. AP costs are already elsewhere on the wiki and the other one is just a guess for the upper bound for a skillcheck. Abscisin said he can correct the faceless reputation guide and fill the skillcheck lists Soon™ so I won't be checking/fixing those right now.
As far as citing, file copyright templates and such legalese are concerned, we have a nice situation here since both the wiki site and its subject are owned by Stygian Software. We haven't needed any such templates, as information here should mainly come from primary sources. I've used simple external links in this manner[1] in place of similar-looking cite templates the few times I've cited Styg's old posts on some game mechanics. - epeli (talk) 02:50, 15 April 2018 (CDT)
I took faceless DC reputation mechanics description and rewrote it but it's still derivative work. That work hasn't otherwise been done by someone not reading the original guide, for creating non-derivative work. Also it's hours replicating the work. Is there a legal problem with Stygian when wiki text requires attribution? The right to require authorship is most basic and least-intrusive thing an author can request. If there's no legal problem, are you fine with keeping attribution in a link tooltip template? I'm gonna change it, let's just get this matter straight. sthalik (talk) 08:25, 15 April 2018 (CDT)
No, it's not a legal issue and I hope we can keep such hassles to a minimum. Don't worry, the attributions are fine for now and the tooltip template is great. But unfortunately I doubt we'll be getting proper citation tags anytime soon. Let's just say configuring the website isn't very high on StygSoft's priorities. (PS. I also just noticed the unicode issue you posted about on the forums. It's the same old bug that some other threads in that subforum talk about.)
So, my point was: avoid or at the very least fact-check secondary sources whenever possible. It's just a quality issue. If you do the work yourself there is no need attribute secondary sources, but that's just a side effect. There is no issue crediting authors for their work, in case you got that impression. We had some fan content in player-made maps and they were credited, it's just that... we can't really do references properly without mediawiki cite extension. In the rapid reloader AP cost table case I removed attribution because the data on the guide originated from here in the first place. And the faceless attitude calculation was originally reverse engineered by MichaelBurge here. - epeli (talk) 10:15, 15 April 2018 (CDT)
How do you like links on Talos Outpost now? The source is a bit painful but will do. We could actually replicate the citing extension to a large degree with templates. How do you feel about it? The templates are pretty similar to Exim's so they're easy, but the expansion rules are sort of demented. See the aforementioned article. sthalik (talk) 21:13, 15 April 2018 (CDT)
It's good, it's good... the previous one was okay too. It's less of a style issue and more of a technical issue. True, we could make the inline citations look just like working refs, but they won't have the same functionally. Templates and parserfunctions can't easily replicate the the way all <ref> tags are parsed into a list of <references/>. Web crawlers won't recognize them as refs. Just that sort of thing, not a huge issue. But if you want to work on cite templates, by all means go ahead. In case we eventually get working refs, existing cite templates could be changed to use them fairly easily. - epeli (talk) 03:58, 16 April 2018 (CDT)

Reporting spam

Hey there. Noticed the portal mentions your talk page. I saw a couple of new accounts today that I'm very certain are bots.

1) User:LewisBlandowski - the word salad is strongly botlike (claiming the UK is in NA), "situs judi terbaik" is basically Indonesian for "best gambling site", followed by an affiliate link.

2) User:AugustaMcClinton - grammatical mistakes typical of a non-native speaker (I'm from SEA myself and speak several languages, these types of mistakes are a common giveaway), yet coupled with contractions a non-native would rarely use ("name is" to "name's"), and the clincher being the extremely western name that just screams it was pulled from a name generator, can't even be mistaken for fanboying of a superhero or other famous character. What really nails it though is they created a spam article 5_Strategi_Deposito_Terbaik - again, that's Indonesian, and it translates to "5 best depositing strategies".

If you could let me know how to go about reporting spammer profiles and articles that would be great. Thanks! - Klaus (talk) 07:16, 4 November 2019 (CST)

The gist of it:
  • There isn't any built-in "report spam" functionality in mediawiki like in forums.
  • If spambots add garbage to legit articles, revert their changes.
  • Mark spam pages with {{delete}} unless you have rights to delete pages.
  • Spambot users can be reported to an admin in any way you see fit. (Currently just me and Styg, who isn't active on the wiki so contact him via forums/email/discord/twitter/something if I ever disappear)
But honestly, there's no need to do that any of that. Our traffic is so low I can just patrol recent changes daily and silently nuke spambots as they appear. Thanks for offering help, though. - epeli (talk) 13:47, 4 November 2019 (CST)

Template Styles

Is it possible to add in custom CSS pages for templates? Zonezonezonezonebest (talk) 07:59, 29 September 2020 (CDT)

No, use inline CSS. That's fine if it's just one template and probably the easiest way to test and develop styles. There's also sitewide mediawiki CSS files, but Styg caches them for a month and editing won't expire the caches, so that takes ages. - epeli (talk) 18:17, 29 September 2020 (CDT)
Right, thank you. Zonezonezonezonebest (talk) 00:23, 30 September 2020 (CDT)